Dave Mosher chats with Barry Barish, head of the design effort for the biggest machine ever conceived
Next Big Collider (1:42 PM): That takes us back to the scientific reasoning for this project...
We are stuck in particle physics. We need to get past the standard model, which explains all data but is limited beyond present observable energies.
That's why we need higher energy, and 1 TeV seems to open the vistas beyond the successful standard model.
Now the final length depends on how far we can go with superconducting accelerating cavities -- another part of our development program. But it will be between 40 and 50 km for 1 TeV, including both beams.
Dave on Earth (1:44 PM): You said it would have to be adjusted to the curvature of the Earth. Why?
Next Big Collider (1:46 PM): That's question and we debated long and hard. (No pun intended)
Could be laser-straight, but that presents other problems -- the machine is deep underground and rock beds occur in layers, so we can dig the tunnels through the layer we want for only so long. Unless we curve with it.
Also, the machine will be full of liquid cryogenics. If you don't curve with the Earth, the cryogenics will roll downhill to either end.
Dave on Earth (1:48 PM): Thanks. And about getting back to science:
What might a big machine such as the ILC tell us -- Joe and Jane Schmoe -- about the universe?
Next Big Collider (1:51 PM): Maybe the nature of the dark matter.
The best candidate we have: supersymmetric particles, which are undiscovered, hypothetical, new kinds of particles.
If they exist and are seen with the LHC or ILC, they might be this unseen matter we've been looking for. It's really frustrating, because we only "see" about 5 percent of what's out in the universe, leaving quite a large hole in our knowledge.
Dave on Earth (1:52 PM): Thanks again. Where, exactly, will the ILC be built?
Next Big Collider (1:55 PM): Where? Another mystery in the universe.
But leading possibilities include CERN (after the LHC) or maybe sooner in the mountains of Japan.
The United States was a leading candidate, but budget actions this past year have made other countries reluctant to trust the U.S. government to carry through.
That could change by 2012, of course. Russia and China are also possibilities, if enough social changes occur during the next decade.
Dave on Earth (1:56 PM): Has anyone tried approaching the U.S. presidential candidates about this?
Next Big Collider (1:57 PM): Yes. There seems to be more understanding of basic science by Obama, beyond slogans, but that may or may not translate into priorities for investment vs. other priorities.
The bottom line is that we need to pick the most important problems in science at any point and work toward how to make progress on them.
And some require big facilities like the ILC.
We need to vigorously pursue and invest in those possibilities to enable us to make wise commitments when the time comes. So the ILC design effort is an investment in the future, and also gives some technological benefits in the process.
The words -- and maybe even understanding -- to support science are in Washington, but the translation into support took it in the neck this year.
Dave on Earth (1:58 PM): So it's a hostile world for U.S. scientists right now.
Next Big Collider (2:03 PM): Our colleagues in other countries don't trust the U.S. government, but like us scientists!
So not hostile in that sense.
Dave on Earth (2:04 PM): Not asking for a silver bullet here, but what needs to happen to get U.S. science back on track?
I've heard lots of talk about "brain drain" from the U.S. to Europe, and people like Bill Gates are testifying before congress that the United States' science, technology, engineering and math education is looking really crappy.
Next Big Collider (2:06 PM): We need Bill Gates, prominent scientists and politicians with understanding to turn around visa policies to bring in and keep the best and brightest scientists, not to mention stable investments.
Interestingly, seven of the top eight politicians in Japan have technical or scientific background. Only a handful of our Congress could say the same.
How can we expect businessmen and lawyers to support us, unless we go to people like you to educate them?
Dave on Earth (2:07 PM): My last question for you, since I know you have to pack your bags for Korea soon:
Let's say it's 2020.
Everything has gone peachy for the ILC: The U.S. got its stuff together to host the machine, it's 31 miles long and was built in a speedy 5 years -- before we've even gone back to the moon.
What machine are we thinking about building now, or perhaps a few years before the ILC is even finished?
Next Big Collider (2:11 PM): The leading idea: A proton beam machine at Fermilab that will create intense neutrinos to be studied at a distant, underground laboratory.
It's not yet fleshed out, but this is the leading idea. Competition in Japan and some unknown science must be resolved first, probably over next 2 to 3 years.
New acceleration techniques are also being developed that could enable a future machine, such as a plasma accelerator.
Dave on Earth (2:13 PM): How big and powerful might these things be?
Next Big Collider (2:15 PM): The neutrino machine would be few GeV and send neutrino beam to Homestake Mine in South Dakota from Fermilab (Batavia, Illinois).
The lab in Homestake -- dubbed DUSEL (deep underground science and engineering laboratory) -- is proposed to NSF and will have broad science program, but the biggest and central experiment could be giant neutrino detector. For that, nothing but studies and research/development is approved as of today.
As for plasma accelerators: they're quite futuristic, but could accelerate particles at much higher (energy) gradients.
Promising tests have been carried out at the Stanford Linear Accelerator.
Am I dismissed? This was interesting and a lot of fun.
Dave on Earth (2:18 PM): Yep, you are dismissed :)
Thanks for taking the time to chat Barry, and please do beam any updates about the ILC to me when they happen (pun intended).
Article posted October 7, 2008.
Got something to say about the International Linear Collider, Large Hadron Collider, cosmology, physics or something else? E-mail your questions, comments or concerns to discoveryspace@discovery.com.
MORE SPACE INTERVIEWS
