Q&A with Gary MackDiscovery Tech Special Feature
Gary Mack JFK assassination expert, Gary Mack, served as a consultant for the Discovery show, "JFK: Inside the Target Car."
JFK assassination expert, Gary Mack, served as a consultant for the Discovery show, "JFK: Inside the Target Car." Producer Tracy Staedter asked Gary five questions about his experience with the assassination and the making of the show.
GARY: The study offered the ability to examine the assassination in a new way, one that had never been done before. If we accurately recreated the physical aspects of the fatal shot to Kennedy's head, we could observe whether the bullet’s effects match what appears in the Zapruder home movie of the shooting. 2. What was your favorite part of this experience? GARY: The recreations in Dealey Plaza where the assassination actually happened, and those at a California gun range for our test shots. In Dallas we had actors assuming the approximate positions of those in the presidential limousine. With Kennedy, however, we had to place our actor in the exact posture for both a suspected grassy knoll shot by a second gunman and the window shot from the former Texas School Book Depository. 3. Given the modern day approach to this answering the controversial question, did you think that the investigators might find something new? Why or why not? GARY: We had no idea what would happen and that's what made the experience quite an adventure. We set up our targets and shooters as accurately as possible and stepped back to see and report on the results. We hoped our tests would be conclusive one way or another; the worst result, of course, would have been for the studies to have been inconclusive and, therefore, would not contribute to today's knowledge of what really happened. Find out how investigators re-enacted the Kennedy assassination 4. Even though the Discovery investigators used a slew of advanced technology and science, they still came up with the same results as the Warren Commission. What, in your opinion, does that say about the Warren Commission's tools as investigators? GARY: The Warren Commission relied primarily upon trained FBI, Secret Service, Dallas Police and other investigators. Despite popular opinion and numerous revelations over the years of unanswered questions and unfollowed leads, no hard, unquestioned, evidence has surfaced showing anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy. It is fair to question, however, if he was working with others or whether he was the one firing. No test could answer those questions, of course. 5. Do you think that using more sophisticated techniques to draw essentially the same conclusion as the Warren Commission was a wasted use of technology? Why or why not? GARY: Public opinion surveys have shown, starting that weekend in 1963, that most people do not believe only one man was responsible for the death of a president. What's obvious in hindsight now is that government apparently believed most would accept the findings and move on to other concerns. That didn't happen, so others, both private citizens and a second government investigation in the late 70s, delved further into the assassination. The result has been a blur of conflicting theories and opinions over the years that may or may not have any basis in fact. Oliver Stone's "JFK" film popularized the "back and to the left" observation of the shooting that seemed to prove a second gunman fired from the front. Our test examined what crime scene investigators would have done in 1963 had they had been able to study the car before it's evidence was disturbed. We also had the new ability to recreate a human head and fire actual bullets at it to observe the results. There could be no such study, and this program could not have been made, without high technology being able to duplicate the mass and density of a human head. We may have demonstrated a new way to analyze crime scenes and thus give law enforcement one very effective new tool! Gary Mack has researched the assassination of John F. Kennedy for more than 30 years. He was "senior consultant" for the first two parts of the television series, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy." He is currently curator of the Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas, where he identifies and acquires artifacts and restores and preserves the museum's collection of films, photographs and videotapes regarding the Kennedy assassination. He has also been a Kennedy assassination subject matter advisor to ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS as well as for The Dallas Morning News, Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times and other news organizations. He has also been a consultant to several Discovery Channel and History Channel programs. In 1998 Mack co-produced the Emmy award winning, "JFK: The Dallas Tapes" and in 2003 co-produced the PBS special, "JFK: Breaking The News." Related Content:
HowStuffWorks.com: Blood Stain Pattern Analysis Comments: Mr. Mack,
Mr. Mack, When the "second gunman" noticed that none of the previous shots had succeeded in killing the president, he fired his rifle or handgun and struck the president in the right temple area. At nearly the exact same instant, the Governor was hit from behind and caused him to be practically thrown into the separator glass of the limo. Look at frames 323 through 327. You will clearly see the Governor being thrown into the glass as if he was struck from behind just as he was slumping over, and immediately after the president's fatal head shot.
No one will ever convince me that there was only 1 shooter. James Files'; testimony may be bogus, but its more plausible than this mumbo jumbo about the lone gunman. And what about the photograph that was taken from the 4th floor of the depository? Would this person have not noticed LHO running down a flight of steps? Would he not have heard gunshots from 2 stories above him? I know for a fact that if the same type bullet had been used in all the shots ... the holes in the president's back and neck would have been large enough to stick your fist through. Ive deer hunted too many times and taken my share of deer and unless the bullet that went through the presidents head was a soft nosed bullet, it would not have done that damage. As well as if the bullet that went through the back and neck had been the same type bullet as the one in the back, the hole in the presidents neck wouldn't be a hole, the whole front of his neck would have been gone, along with the clavicle. And if this same bullet had hit the Governor, his chest would have had a hole big enough to stick your whole fist into. But the bullet wasn't the same because that type of bullet would most definitely have mushroomed out and possibly broken into several pieces before it even hit the Governor. Look at frames 323 through 327 of the Zapruder film.
There were 2 simultaneous bullets. The one from behind is the one that hit the Governor at almost the precise instant that the president was hit in the head. Don't take my word for it, look at those frames for yourself. You will definitely see the Governor is practically thrown forward into the separator glass by an unnatural force. This was no natural reaction. Something forced him into this position and it is nothing like near the time that everyone assumes that the Governor was hit. In my firm belief, I feel that this is the instant that Connolly was struck by the bullet, and not at the instant that the president was shot in the back. Please look for yourself. Even if I thought Oswald was a shooter, firing 3 impossible shots in an absurd 5.7 seconds, I would never believe he was a "Lone Nut". Of course he was on the payroll of both the FBI and the CIA. Why was he trained in the Russian language and given an exam in Russian proficiency while in the Marine Corps? What are the odds of a "Communist" being allowed to return to the U.S. at the height of the Cold War with no questions asked by the CIA after previously "defecting" to the USSR? And he just "happened" to government IDs with aliases like "AJ Hidell" and have David Ferrie's library card in his pocket when arrested. You can go to the Wikipedia page on Oswald and see his picture with David Ferrie -- and someone using Oswald's name but not at all resembling him just "happened" to be in Mexico trying to get a visa to Cuba. As an American, it infuriates me that our government, media, and history books continue to feed us lies and expect us to believe them. The sad truth is, in the 1960s, we were basically a Banana Republic rather than a democracy. Joel, I used to be a CT but am now a confirmed LN. The Carcano 6.5 FMJ is quite capable of doing all the damage of the SBT on two human beings sitting in tandem. I'm more curious about the head wound because it was not typical of a 6.5 Carcano FMJ projectile. The head wound was more in keeping with the well known wound effects of the AR15 and M16. Doesn't mean the Carcano could not produce the same results, only that it is rare for this durable FMJ projectile to fail so completely. Thanks for the comments, Historicus. But while the Discover documentaries try to make the Magic Bullet Theory walk on water, but it still doesn't even hold water in my eyes. Discovery tries yet again to bolster faith with pseudoscience. One more question, why didn't they test .222 soft-tipped ammo in a Remington XP-100 Fireball from the knoll? This is by far the leading theory as to type of weapon fired from the knoll, as claimed by James Files' alleged confessions. Then the test from the knoll might have at least some kind of relevance instead of just taking a random rifle and ammo and firing from the knoll. One link seems to be bad. Try these: Joel B, However, while it is a rare occurrence, the 6.5 FMJ Carcano bullet has been known to fail when striking hard bone and game animal organs. Please see "Progenitors of a cartridge family" by P.T.Kekkonen. Also, Lt.Col. Pierre A Finck, a leading expert on gunshot wounds for the U.S. Army, was questioned on this specific point by the Warren Commission. His testimony can found at: http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/history/wc_period/warren_report/Finck.html. Both these firearms experts claim the 6.5 Carcano FMJ bullet will shatter into many fragments in certain circumstances. I hate to disappoint all the Magic Bullet Believers, but in the end, science wins out over inaccurate computer simulations. Sadly, what this program left out in editing shows the clear agenda of Discovery and the program's producers. What they didn't include in the program was that NONE OF THE TEST BULLETS FROM THE MANNLICHER-CARCANO SHATTERED AND LEFT FRAGMENTS IN THE SIMULATED HEADS!! That ammo simply does not shatter like the ammo used in the JFK head shot. THIS IN FACT PROVES THE OPPOSITE CONCLUSION FROM THE ONE DRAWN--THE FATAL SHOT THAT KILLED JFK COULD NOT HAVE BEEN FIRED BY OSWALD OR ANYONE ELSE USING THIS WEAPON AND AMMO!! The data in Discovery's tests proved the case for conspiracy, but they simply make a pathetic attempt spin the data to reach their preordained conclusion. ALSO, AS POINTED OUT BY ROBERT GRODEN, THE STATEMENT THAT A SHOT FROM THE KNOLL WOULD HAVE KILLED JACKIE IS A COMPLETE LIE -- IF YOU CHECK THE ZAPRUDER FRAMES OR THE FAMOUS MARY MOORMAN PHOTO IT IS OBVIOUS THAT IT WOULD NOT!! Lining the actors up in at the wrong positions just proves the incompetence and/or bias of this documentary. ALSO, THIS SHOW CLAIMS TO GO "INSIDE THE TARGET CAR" BUT DOESN'T EVEN SHOW THE OFFICIAL WARREN COMMISSION PHOTOS OF THE LIMO DAMAGE -- THESE PHOTOS OF COURSE WERE IGNORED BY THE WARREN COMMISSION BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BE ACCOUNTED FOR IN ONLY 3 SHOTS!! Here is a link to check see the this the real photos of the limo damage: http://www.in-broad-daylight.com/ Fascinating response to the Scientific Method, much like the negative response to modern astrophysics during the early part of the Enlightenment. Not everyone wants to be enlightened. Now Gary Mack knows how Galileo felt when he championed heliocentrism over geocentric religious beliefs. Mack is confronting a belief system that rivals religious fanaticism, and who have a serious allergic reaction to scientific proof. How desperately they cling to mythomania when Mack commits the unpardonable sin of embracing modern science. To make matters worse some of his critics still believe in witchcraft, where knoll trolls disappear in a puff of smoke. Gary Mack's recent excursion into modern Enlightenment is met by boos, hisses, and catcalls from denizens of the Dark Ages of the JFK Assassination B.S. (Before Science). The Conspiracy mob has enjoyed a 45 year lead of hypercritical speculation, but modern science is closing the gap and proving a single sniper from the 6th floor of the TSBD could easily have made 2 lethal shots out of 3 tries from 60' above the street on a slow moving target inside 300 feet. Not only could most Marine Corp marksmen duplicate this shooting feat, so could most experienced riflemen. Science has caught up with the CT crowd and is proving how little they know about real ballistics. The bottom line is Oswald with his minimal resources probably did pull off this tragic shooting feat. Anybody have any doubt whatsoever the conspiracy kooks such as Groden would come out in force? They never disappoint. There was a young black couple sitting on a park bench just behind the retaining wall to the right of Zapruder. This bench was only a few feet from the picket fence. They left a Coke bottle on the retaining wall and that bottle is clearly seen in post-assasination photos. This couple likely makes up the shadowy figure that is supposedly "badge man" -- at least in one documentary.
There were also about three people standing midway down on the steps leading from the retaining wall to the street. I have never seen anything showing them reacting to a shot from behind. This morning I noticed that you have apparently removed my comments from your site. Here they are again. For all to know, I was present when the Target Car travesty was being filmed in Dealey Plaza. I pointed out to the director and the "expert", Gary Mack, that the positions and locations of both the actors portraying President and Jackie Kennedy were completely wrong. Both Mack and the other clown told me that the positions and locations were not important to the points that they were trying to show. It was in fact everything! Now they say that they didn't catch the "mistakes" in time. What a crock! These were not mistakes at all. I showed them the "errors" before they shot the fraudulent scenes. The show has Mrs. Kennedy sitting about 7 inches too far to the rear of the car and the President's head is rotated about 40 degrees too far to the left. This garbage was not science. It was as dishonest as the past three shows in this propaganda series. It might be argued that the producers and director might have been too stupid to know the truth, but Gary Mack certainly knew that this was a lie from beginning to end. That's why even though I was there for several of the shows, they ignored me and went with the man who holds the record as the biggest sellout in the history of the Kennedy case, Gary Mack. I'm sorry that I ever called him a friend. Robert Groden You obviously changed angles cliber and several other facts to try to prove your theory. a 5th grader could have been more accurate. you have insulted every viewer that watched your hour of lies. do you really think we are that stupid? Unfortunately, it seems Gary Mack knows just enough about the assassination to be a problem for a show such as this. He blatantly misused the color SS photos; claiming they were taken at 1 a.m. 11.23.63 when he knew very well they were not taken until late Saturday afternoon. Then he managed to make excuses for the reenactment not being in the Z312 position, the bullets that did not fragment but tore through the car, plus simply ignored the controversy over the point of entrance of the fatal head shot. Since it seems he was his own highest authority, he can take responsibility for the gaping holes in credibility in the show -- and in the press release too. Discovery Channel, I was a young child when John was assassinated.I wish you had done a more complete job of investigating this.WAY TO MANY LOOSE ENDS.Who was behind this dastardly act??? I am sorry to tell them this but if you watch the video when the shot hits JFK's head, you can plainly see that it goes into the front and out the back. All you need to do is watch it again and you can see it. The matter comes out the back. I have hunted before and my brother has too, when an animal is shot or a person, the exit wound is larger when the bullet comes out. The exit wound on JFK is out the back, not the front. It makes me wonder why they had 2 Autopsy Photos. Showing two different things, one exit wound on the back of the skull form the first photo taken, and another showing the front. That is archived and no conspiracy there. It's very odd. Thank you Discovery Channel. You've proved to me that you are not to be believed. Ever. Now go away and lie to someone else. I'm sick of being lied to. Total bs. Lies, lies, and more lies. Discovery channel has become laughable. Sorry, sell this garbage somewhere else. I'll NEVER watch ANY Discovery channel again. I'm tired of being assumed a fool and lied to. Just found this with interviews from those who were there 45 years ago. I saw the simulated head being shot and it looked like the wound was twice that the President suffered. Secret Service agent Clint Hill, who was the first to see the wounded President stated that the wound was on the right side above the right ear and it was the size of his palm. A large wound , but in no way half his head or as large as this recreation. The shot MOST likely came from the sixth floor, seems to me if this is such a high tech demonstration, they should have said the only place it could have come from. But they didn't, it only made most likely. If the Secret service, the FBI and Dallas police were such experienced investigators, WHY, did they clean the evidence from the limo at Parkland hospital? Maybe that evidence didn't support the head shot coming from the sixth floor. They have to clear that up first along with a hundred other bad investigating procedures that those experienced people were involved with that day in Nov. '63. I haven't seen this program yet, but this program is not likely to convince me of a shot from the sixth floor. Everyone has something to sell. And every year someone comes along this time of year and sells their expertise to the media bent on proving the WC was right because it sells air time. Dale Meyers and his digital company recreated Dealy Plaza and the assassination film in digital format. He doesn't care as long as he gets his name out there to sell his product. I work with computers all day and know garbage in, garbage out! There was never a discretion of the bullet path to know trajectory but Dale knows, he can send a straight line back to the 6th floor TSBD. Bob Harris did a similar trajectory and his path back focused on the Daltex Roof. Mmmmmmmm.
Gary Mack is following the same path. Another salesman looking to sell his product. Total garbage. They must think we are complete idiots. Don't believe any of it. I have to agree with some of the above thoughts. In your recreation, the limo wasn't moving, how could you exclude that?. You had a champion marksman, non-moving target. You used a better weapon. Do you know where the 3rd round landed? Thanks. In 2013, would 1963 newspapers of the event be of much value? Shame on you, Discovery Channel!!!! Liars!!!!
So LHO shot JFK from the book depository with sharpshooter precision accuracy when he did not possess the skill to do so and with a notoriously unreliable rifle and a faulty scope in 6 seconds. Yeah, right. Who paid you? In the show, they mentioned that if the fatal shot came from the grassy knoll that Jackie would have been killed by the bullet that went through JFK's head. If the shot came from the upper rear as the show stressed, where did the bullet go upon exit of JFK's head. Wouldn't Connolly and his wife have been in that path? It's amazing how they made a big fuss that a piece of the skull flew back just like it did in Dallas 1963, yet they failed to mention that a Dallas citizen also found a piece of JFK's skull some 35 feet away in line with the grassy knoll. In the same area that the Muchmoore photo was taken. Explain that ....
I thought it enlightening when they discussed that a Grassy Knoll head shot would have killed Jackie also. Jackie wasn't sitting next to JFK, she was leaning forward looking at her husband who had already been shot through the neck and was leaning forward like he was. The shot from the Knoll wouldn't have hit her at all. Forensic Science? What about the back and to the left motion? Never in my life have i seen anything get shot from one angle and just completely get lifted and thrown to another angel. Common sense doesn't lie. Hey Gary, what about the 7.75 Mauser which was the first gun found and at the book depository? As one other person stated, what about the windshield that was removed at the ford plant per affidavit of glass supervisor at Ford and the two female witnesses who were among first at Parkland scene one being a competitive shooter who attested to a bullet hole in windshield? Let's assume for the time being that discovery channel is right, head shot came from the back. Suppose that it didn't come from the 6th floor of Book Depository. Instead,it came from the 2nd floor of the Dal-Tex building which is perpendicular to Book D,on the same corner. Shooter there would have a much clear shot at the head because he was looking right down the street at back of car. 2nd floor is about 40 ft lower. What would a shot from there look like. By the way, in case you don't know about it an international assassin name "Saul" has admitted that he made that fatal shot. Dr. Doug Hanson, Forensuc Columnist Very disturbing. Using different ammunition for the grassy knoll recreation, as well as his weapon of choice?! The experiment did not utilize a moving target, or explain any of the other injuries sustained in the limo. I would like to see their sharpshooter recreate every aspect of the shooting, as well as a smaller caliber bullet used in the "3rd gunman" angle. Again very disturbing that they call this conclusive. Inside the Target Car was very enlightening. I've always thought that the shot that killed Kennedy was from the picket fence. Your outstanding simulation of the fatal shot and the devastating results of Kennedy's head has made me a believer that this shot did indeed come from the rear. Now the only unclear fact remaining is, who fired the shots? How do we account for Mac Wallace's fingerprint on one of the boxes in the sniper's nest? I am concerned that people are seeing the Oliver Stone movie as fact.s It is not accurate to combine characters and dialogue. He should have made a documentary. "We also had the ability to create a human head" LOL!!!! yep, because I've seen an ENTIRE head get SHOT OFF from a rifle. wow, in what world does Gary Mack and this JFK crew live in? a fantasy world or in the common sense real world? What a farce, as an Marine sniper I would have loved to pick apart your "Scientific" observations. 20 mph wind 7 mph car movement Your expert needed different optics.I would wager a life's pay that he couldn't make those three shots with the exact weapon out of 80 shots. I JUST 6 seconds. Have you guys become government stooges? I love my country but you would have to be simple in the head to believe that show. The Discovery Channel and the Military Channel are one and the same. Another example of the fox investigating the chicken coup. There was no blood splatter to the rear -- the blood was blasted to the rear. We now have magic blood to accompany the magic bullet. Oliver Stone's "JFK" film popularized the "back and to the left" observation of the shooting that seemed to prove a second gunman fired from the front. Our test examined what crime scene investigators would have done in 1963 had they had been able to study the car before it's evidence was disturbed. We also had the new ability to recreate a human head and fire actual bullets at it to observe the results. There could be no such study, and this program could not have been made, without high technology being able to duplicate the mass and density of a human head. We may have demonstrated a new way to analyze crime scenes and thus give law enforcement one very effective new tool! Not at all my dear Watson, the backward motion is simple physics -- look at the Zapruder frame-frame from Frame 312. JFK is bouncing off of Jackie. Ever play pool? The head shot was from the rear. Now question how it could have come at at a 56 degree angle -- "CASE NOT CLOSED"! The first thing I noticed in the investigation was the car wasnt even the same type as JFK was killed in, He was riding in a 62 or 63 Lincoln, and the car in the investigation was a mid-fifties Cadillac. Even a high school drop out such as I (however I do know a little bit about cars) makes any semblance of accurate measurements flawed. Gee, I wonder if Discovery factored into their "science" the bullet that struck with windshield of jfk's limo and the fact that the damaged windshield was replaced and not admitted into evidence *cough 2nd shooter cough*. Case closed right? :)
Who paid you off Discovery? Tsk tsk liars. |
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